Ferli Deni Iskandar: “The idea that economy is allocation of scarce resources is only a half truth. All resources is energy which is not created nor destroyed but only changes form. Resources diminish when energy changes form to non desired one.” – Enoch Tan.

Haryo Aswicahyono: also, elative to human wants, which is unlimited, everything is scarce.

Ferli Deni Iskandar:@haryo: disagree pak, sorry, maksud dr pernyataan itu adalah kita sebenarnya selalu dlm keberadaan keberlimpahan krn energi yg kekal, kalau saja manusia selalu melakukan kreasi (transformasi energi/materi dari satu bentuk ke bentuk lain yg lbh diinginkan) maka kita tdk akan pernah kekurangan resources; di sini kelangkaan bukanlah sifat alam, tapi akibat dari kurangnya daya kreasi manusia.

Ferli Deni Iskandar: contoh, sinar matahari dikonversi tumbuhan menjadi tepung dan gula, yg memberi makan hewan, yg lalu menyebarkan benihnya, yg lalu memberi makan lbh banyak hewan, yg lalu memberi makan manusia, yg membuat manusia mampu membangun, membuat masyarakat tercipta, yg mengubah peradaban, yg menuntun pd penemuan dan inovasi, yg mengangkat perdagangan dan diplomasi, yg membuat seluruh bumi lbh berbudaya, yg membuat kesadaran manusia meningkat.

Ferli Deni Iskandar: Sumberdaya menjadi langka ketika energi berubah menjadi yg tdk kt inginkan. Ketika tumbuhan tdk dibagikan sinar matahari, mereka mati tanpa sempat memberi makan makhluk lain. Sumberdaya jd melimpah ktk dibagikan krn saat itulah tercipta kesempatan utk mengubahnya menjadi bentuk yg lbh kt inginkan. Setiap kt punya bakat dan minat unik yg berfungsi mengubah energi yg kt terima mjd sesuatu yg diinginkan dunia.

Ferli Deni Iskandar: Ekonomi seharusnya adalah ilmu tentang alokasi sumberdaya yang melimpah.

Ferli Deni Iskandar: Ekonomi didefinisikan sbg alokasi sumberdaya langka ktk orang memiliki mentalitas kelangkaan (scarce mentality). Hal ini membuat kita cenderung pelit atas sumberdaya yg kt miliki. Pdhl, semakin banyak kt memberi, kt akan semakin kaya dan berlimpah. Energi yg kekal terus-menerus menyusun dirinya utk meningkatkan kualitas hidup mereka yg senantiasa mencipta dan berbagi.

Mardia Nasir: tapi bukankah tarikannya sebab nampak seolah-olah scarce.. kalau nampak banyak semua orang tak mahu lalu harganya turun.. bukankah orang lebih rela membuang makanan karena harganya turun daripada memberinya gratis kepada yang memerlukan?

Haryo Aswicahyono: premisnya hanya betul sebagian, tetapi konklusinya betul.
kekekalan energy hanya satu aspek yaitu first law of thermodynamics, it is a happy law. tapi mas lupa second law of thermodynamics:
“the second law seem a little less happy to some. the second law says that each time energy gets transferred or transformed, some of it, and eventually all of it, gets less useful. That’s the truth. It gets less useful, until finally, it becomes simply useless.
All of the energy we use ends up, sooner or later, as what we engineers like to call “low-grade” energy. This low-grade energy is only good for warming the air around us a little bit. Inevitably, it gets radiated out into the vast cold universe, lost to us forever”
nah untuk mencegah energi memburuk dari high grade menjadi low grade, memang diperlukan input kreatifitas manusia.
peradaban manusia itu memang kejar-kejaran kreativitas melawan meningkatnya entropy (disorder).

Ferli Deni Iskandar: @mardia: that’s scarcity mentality in action, something that actually is not in the best interests of neither individual nor society.
@haryo: 2nd law of thermodynamics sepengetahuan saya dianggap kurang mampu menjelaskan self-organizing structures spt evolusi, (sebagian tahap) kehidupan dan kesadaran, di mana entropi malah bersifat negatif (keteraturan malah meningkat). Pengertian ‘terkoreksi’ hukum kedua termodinamika adlh bhw hukum tsb berlaku bagi sistem2 tertutup, di mana tdk ada keluar-masuk energi, dan tdk berlaku bagi sistem2 terbuka, nonequilibrium, spt organisme.
One last thing, Hukum2 Termodinamika lahir dlm masa dominasi paradigma “Semesta sbg Mesin” bawaan fisika klasik, suatu paradigma yg mulai digeser oleh paradigma “Semesta sbg Kesadaran” sbg konsekuensi fisika kuantum.

Mardia Nasir: yes, what i mean is if you call it that – ’sistem ekonomi’, that is what you get – scarcity mentality. that is the given definition. to have a different definition you have to call it another name. it is made into a theory because that is what humans do.
and believe it or not, we are part of it. we are participating in it.
otherwise, how come the people who work so hard and longer hours physically earn less than ’special’ (scarce) people who work some of the time? Whereas, as a society we can’t function if those ’small’ people do not do what they do. Everyone has a part to play and each one is needed, but how come some people get so much that they can’t even use it while some don’t even have enough for basic necessities?

Ferli Deni Iskandar: @mardia: theories, IMHO, is just a mental model of reality, and as “the map is not the territory” so isn’t the mental model for the reality. theories can be seen as nothing more than a social construction, in which negotiation, power-play, is also at work to determine which one survive people’s mind share. human shapes the theories, not the other way around. we can negotiate the definition of economy, giving it new meanings, just like any other human artifacts.

Ferli Deni Iskandar: @mardia: money/income, or any other social/economic rewards, is essentially disproportional to one’s work or sacrifices to earn it, that’s just the nature of it. money is a reflection of someone’s contributions to society, a contributions that are well valued/appreciated by the society, which then give some (other forms of) value in return.
if someone works hard, but it’s not appreciated or recognized highly by the masses, then he/she deserves the low income. you see, not the amount of effort that counts, but the value contributed to the masses.

Ferli Deni Iskandar: @mardia: do we, as a society to be functioning well, absolutely need the “low level”, dehumanizing job like garbage man etc.? i believe we don’t.  if everyone achieved financial freedom, of course, those kind of jobs would disappear, but along the way, society will restructure, redefine its need in such a way that eliminates waste production, for instance. that’s what i meant by energy/matter transformation and self-organizing structures creating better, more intelligent consciousness at the individual and collective level.

Mardia Nasir: for example in the western world, if you have skills in building eg tukang kayu, you will earn a lot, we need somebody to sweep the floor, handle the garbage, drive the garbage truck – if you think manual labor is going to be abolished i guess you will have to create a new world. The job is only low because we think and pay them low wages. Not everybody wants or likes the millionaire’s life of doing nothing and just enjoying oneself. People do love to work and take pride in their labour. What is the problem is these people who work for the society are paid not even enough for basic necessities – to live in dignity.
The more people achieve ‘financial freedom’ the more they hate manual labour and will find somebody else to do it. Otherwise, what is the money for? If you live by yourself and do the manual labour yourself, you already have financial freedom, you would not need so much money.

Ferli Deni Iskandar: i think we have been, are, and will always be creating a new world. nowadays most of us enjoy greater prosperity than most kings centuries ago. old professions disappeared, new professions are born every now and then.
people earn low wages/income simply because the society does not appreciate their work highly enough, regardless of how much effort they put into it. each society has different values on what is considered a worthy contribution, so yes, while we here in eastern countries tend to give low value for skillful carpenters, western societies tend to value them more because they do not have them nearly as ubiquitous as we do.
not sure if i agree with your suggestion to equate financial freedom with being self-sufficient.

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